Ms Jheri Worldwide
Staff Writer
When retired New York Supreme Court Justice Betty Williams suggested I interview Major General Joseph McNeil I jumped at the opportunity to sit down with a living revolutionary. During my time at North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, I would see Major General McNeil annually at the February One breakfast commemoration. I studied his courageous actions in University Experience class, and as a socially conscious Aggie I was always encouraged to stand up or sit down for what I believed to be right. Like the American hero we are here to learn from, I woke up on a mission. A bus, two trains, and a long walk over the railroad tracks symbolically led me to the Long Island diner where I had breakfast with Major General Joseph McNeil.
Like a good Aggie, I arrived early. I never could or would have imagined in my wildest dreams that I’d be being given the green light to ask any question my heart and mind desired of Major General McNeil over French toast, eggs, and bacon. It was my personal desire to better understand the men behind the movement and what influenced their revolutionary decisions. Through my research three things became evident; these men were done with Jim Crow, they were bonded together by a purpose from a divine power, and all were exposed to revolutionary thought in their respective upbringings. It was only a matter of time before the Greensboro Four sat down together and demanded service refusing to be separate in a free society.
I ordered french toast and Major General Joseph McNeil ordered bacon and eggs. We chatted about Long Island where he has lived for almost 40 years and my experience in Aggie Land. I inquired about his roots in Wilmington, North Carolina, “My parents migrated north from Wilmington, North Carolina for job opportunities. I was in 8th grade on forward in New York City. We had to go where you could find work, not much was happening in the south. Can’t afford many times to do what’s in your heart, you have to do what’s necessary to survive.”
Q: What led you to North Carolina A&T State University?
A: “I applied to A&T after I was offered a scholarship. An academic scholarship from the alumni association. I had a big one, it helped a lot. Tuition was $600-$700 a year. I managed to stay engaged in civil rights but also had part-time jobs. I had a research grant, I worked at Holiday Inn as a waiter, and in the library. My job in the library paid 50 cents an hour.” We both laughed, I couldn’t believe it! “I can recall my roommate, he was from Brooklyn we lived off campus junior and senior year. We didn’t have a refrigerator, so we’d keep our eggs and perishables in the window. We’d eat them before they spoiled. We didn’t have money to have a bed so we had a couple of mattresses. I think we managed to get a table from somebody and crates for chairs. Student life was exciting. A&T was a unique experience in many ways.”
I heard Jessie Jackson lived in your residence hall, “He lived one door down from me in Cooper Hall, I was there until I moved off campus. He was a different guy in so many ways. He was definitely very conscious. And he could be demonstrative. He was a good student. We had a few classes together, one I remember is economics. Our professor was Dr. Tate, labor law was his specialty. Jessie would get a 94 on the exam and I would get at 96, we had that type of relationship.” So you were competitive? “We realized what it was. “Got you that time” we would say. But he was different in many other ways. During the summer, if I remember correctly, Jessie went to Washington for some kind of legislative program. But he told us that’s what he was going to do. He said he was going to Washington to get a job, and he did it! And you didn’t find many other students thinking like that.”
Q: What do you think of our alma mater today?
A: “Obviously proud of the edifice. I’m really proud of having a dorm named in my honor. How fitting, that four new dorms would be built and that student government found it fitting to name them after the four sit in students. When I learned of the background of the naming, students saying what they wanted and demonstrating to make it happen. I was proud. A&T students have always been on the radical side.”
Let’s talk about the movement. When you called your Mom on January 31st, 1960, did you ask her or tell her your intentions?
A: “It helped to have her consent. My parents were very race conscious, they had to leave the south because of no job opportunities. They were workers. I didn’t know it at the time but my father in his lifetime had accumulated five or six jumbo CDs. While their jobs weren’t the greatest they managed to do well and keep their heads above water. We grew up in Harlem during the summers. I was very in tune with the things happening in the Harlem community. Nationalist of various backgrounds and spectrums. Langston Hughes, all the musicians. During the summer I spent my time listening to people like Malcolm X, and what they did back then on the corner of Lenox and 125th street. Somebody would get a ladder and start orating. Crowds would gather. These orators would say really challenging things, some of it was non-sense like Trump, outlandish stuff. But it was my first experience with people who were openly hostile towards whites. It impacted me in two ways; one, I knew some of it was bull shit, then some of it I had never heard before and it seemed plausible. That was a learning experience I had that made me conscious where I’m sure other people my age never had that exposure. When I look back at my high school days, people had radically, different, challenging scenarios in life. In high school we talked about the constitution and our rights to challenge things. While in high school, along with other kids we boycotted the Pepsi plant for discriminatory hiring practices. It was enlightening in many ways.”
Q: Who supported you during the movement?
A:“None of the instructors cut us any slack. What was a disheartening was not all students participated. I remember coming back at 4:30pm having been on the picket line two or three hours and seeing a football player sitting under a tree in the shade with his girlfriend. I’m out taking insults and stuff. That’s when you have to ask yourself tough questions and know this is an individual action. If it’s positive, you’re responsible. If it’s negative, you’re responsible. If you come out in a pine box, these are the things people had to think about. You could get kicked out of school, like the students at South Carolina State. I think it was Louisiana students were kicked out for disrupting education. Or you might wind up in jail, you might get whipped. We had to learn that we were responsible. It was an individual decision. I get the feeling that a lot of people had talked about sit ins… A lot of people talk.”
Q: So is it safe to say A&T didn’t help or hinder you?
A: “They didn’t punish us. They consulted us. The governor of the state told our president Dr. Warmoth T. Gibbs, a Harvard graduate, “Gibbs, call off your dogs.”
Dogs?! I exclaimed, “Yes. He was telling Gibbs, the president of a state run school, to cool it. So, Gibbs when presented with this challenge went back to the governor and says, “I talked to these kids, they don’t listen to me. Plus, we teach them how to think, not what to think.” Then Dr. Gibbs came back and told us, “I’m sure you boys made up your minds.” We went out and continued picketing. We had that type of support.” Check out our next issue for part two!
